Ahem. So what I decided to do instead, so that EVERYONE can enjoy my post, is just talk about a thing that the book raised, and that has been brought to my attention before, and we can all say what we think about it. Hence, no spoilers, everyone's happy. OK? Good. (Although, let me just say that this is the SLOWEST book ever and nothing has happened in 8 chapters. 8 BIG chapters, I should add. Sigh.)
So, there's this part where this girl goes to this party with this guy (details aren't important here) and when she's there she sees a girl she's friends with and they go off and dance and generally have a good old girly time. The guy sees this, and assumes they're really good friends, but while they're driving home, they have this exchange:
"'That girl Brenda I met tonight: I don't much like her, you know.'Obviously all this is to show that this particular character is all non-conventional, blah blah blah, but is this really how women are? I mean, do you have friends that you don't really like? This isn't the first time I've come across the idea, is why it struck me as interesting/irritating (more of the latter). In Julie and Julia, Julie asks her 'proper' friend 'What do you think it means if you don't like your friends' and her friend (also a woman) says 'oh, it's totally normal'. Is it?! And the entire basis of Mean Girls is that friendship is a competitive enterprise, and, you know, everyone secretly hates each other.
I said, 'You don't? I'd never have guessed. You greeted each other like long-lost sisters.'
'Oh, women always go on like that.'
'Yes, I've often thought it must be exhausting to be a woman.'
'It is if you do it properly. Which is why I so seldom do.'"
And I really don't know how accurate these are as descriptions of certain female friendships, but I DO know that a lot of the females I know (not naming any names) bitch about their so-called friends a LOT, while I'm just sitting there going 'so... why do you hang out with them again?' See, the thing is, I don't have that many friends, but I can say with complete honesty that I don't bitch about the ones I have, because I love them! And honestly, I only want to hang out with people that I love, otherwise I'd rather be alone (you know, reading and shit) than spending time with people that I'm just going to spend more of my time complaining about afterwards. That's just how I roll.
So. Does this make me a 'non-proper woman', or just a sensible and thinking human being? I mean, am I the only person who just DOESN'T get this way of thinking, or are you with me? Friends are there to be liked, right, not to compete with or be irritated by or for you to essentially hate. Or, does everyone do this and I'm just the odd one out (which, in this case, I really don't mind)? Let's have your thoughts!
I've never understood this. I have a couple of friends that I've known my entire life, who maybe we don't have as much in common as we used to and one in particular who can be quite irritating, but she can also be awesome. And we have a lot of shared experience so we have those stupid little private jokes from when we were eight that nobody else gets. I have been known to occassionally bitch but usually just when I'm in a bad mood anyway - I'm not very good at controlling anger, it tends to just get out and be directed at whatever person is nearest rather than whoever it's actually about. But yeah, if you don't like somebody, don't spend time with them. It's not that difficult. I just find it weird that people would want to waste their time on people they don't really like.. :-/
ReplyDeleteExactly! I feel like, especially because I'm like READING, YOU ARE AWESOME (seriously, I do think this whilst reading!) the people I want to hang with have to be pretty special to drag me away from books and tv and shit! I just don't really get the whole competitive girl thing. It makes me feel icky.
DeleteI agree with you. I'm friends with my friends because I want to see them. Of course, they can bug me sometimes, but it's not because they're bad people or I dislike them, it's because we're humans, and humans tend to get on each others' nerves.
ReplyDeleteAnd that scene in Julie and Julia? WTF. Why do you know these people at all?!
That being said, I do also feel a lot of pressure to be nice to women I don't particularly like. For example, since I've just started this grad program, I've met a lot of new people and tend to go out with a large group of folks who I don't necessarily select. There are some girls in this group who I really don't like that much, and yet I feel like I have to be extra nice to them because they seem to like me. It ends up feeling very fake and uncomfortable. I wonder if men feel this pressure too.
Oh yeah, I don't necessarily think that you should be like 'omg, you're perfect, let's never disagree about anything' cause that shit's BORING, but in a general way, they're your *friends* not, like, people you sort of secretly hate.
DeleteI feel like that situation is really typical of like a meeting new people thing, and as people get to know each other they group off and you know who you can really be friends with, you know? I don't know if men feel the same pressure though... Maybe they're better at just casual conversation without worrying about where they stand with other people? And yet they still know who their friends are? In a totally generalising way, of course.
I don't know, people are complex!
I don't understand this. I like my friends. Why would you spends loads of time with people you didn't like (by choice. being forced to interact with people you don't like is a dif story).
ReplyDeleteAlso I forgot to mention YAY Mean Girls reference and when are we all going to watch that, hmm???
DeleteExactly, I just don't... Just don't hang out with them! I have been slightly re-thinking the bit in TLS, just because they re-met at a party and so hung out, but she knew other people there and just could have been like 'sorry, gotta go hang with the dude who brought me.'
DeleteBlurring the lines of reality and fiction here, I realise! But yeah, fakeness and having friends you hate=bad bad bad!
Er...ahem. I have some friends that I like doing a couple things with, but whom I wouldn't trust with confidences. They're more hanging out buddies.
ReplyDeleteBUT would you actively talk about how much you dislike them after pretending to be BFFs for the evening?
DeleteIt depends on if they were mean that evening or not.
DeleteBut you don't like HATE them, right? Like, if you hated them you wouldn't want to, and so wouldn't see them? I don't think everyone has to be your BEST friend, but... I also don't think people should hang with people they hate!
DeleteI don't HATE them, but sometimes I don't like them.
DeleteHmmm. Hm. I think you're ok. Maybe. But find better friends, yeah?
DeleteI'm just SAYIN' that you can have people you do things with whom you're not necessarily like "I would call you if my car got stolen" but you're good with hanging out and doing activities with. Different LEVELS of friends.
DeleteWell I think having levels of friends is different than being like "Oh THAT person? No I just pretend to like them. I actually can't stand them."
DeleteI think that here, we basically all have the same opinion but we're all saying it in different ways, and frankly, I'm getting confused. So basically... Don't hang with people you actively hate. But everyone else is fine. Yes?
DeleteI agree with you. My friends are my friends because I love them! However, I did have this sort of interaction with a few co-workers over the years. But I think that's different. I had to be around them. It wasn't a matter of choice.
ReplyDeleteExactly! Like in Julie and Julia, for example, Julie moans about like HAVING to go to this lunch, but she didn't HAVE to go, you know? You HAD to work with those people. It just irritates me that this has become a 'thing women do' like in fiction. Cause who does that?!
DeleteI *almost* joined this read-a-long but then decided I'd already bitten off more than I can chew recently. But I still want to read this book!
ReplyDeleteThere's no sense in hanging out with people that you don't genuinely want to be with right? There are those circumstances when you are stuck but mostly we have a choice :)
Argh, you should readalong with us! I'm gonna break it down into easy weekly installments...
DeleteAnyway, yeah. Hanging out with people you don't like never really seems like a good idea to me. But obviously some people do it. Or they do in fiction, at least!
Hi! I just discovered your blog via Trish's BBAW post and I love your style. I 've noticed that too - the high school version of firendship, like in Mean Girls, going on through entire lifetimes. I generally don't associate with people who make a habit of bitching about others because I always wonder what they're saying about ME when I'm not there!
ReplyDeleteHa, yes, totally not me but perhaps this is a certain type of woman? Or indeed man. I know guys who bitch a lot about their friends too. It's not even necessarily a bad thing, I just don't get it myself. But maybe not everyone is lucky enough to have the wonderful friends that I do :-)
ReplyDelete