Friday 5 April 2013

"Just because you've got the emotional range of a teaspoon, doesn't mean we all have.'"

Oh man. This section of OotP has so much going on that I have EIGHT PAGES of notes to somehow fit into this post. Because SO MUCH STUFF, and SNAPE and OMG NEVILLE, and ok, I'm going to stop shouting things and just write in sentences and things now, ok?

Much as I just want to jump in and talk about Snape's memory, I'm just going to go ahead and save that til last because I have TOO MANY EMOTIONS and I don't want to expend them all in one go and be too tired to write about other things. So, let's talk about Cho.
Because, up until this week, I've pretty much thought of her as basically harmless, and I definitely didn't hate her for, like, 'taking Ginny's man' or whatever, but... I know what the problem is now. It's that, she's such a massive GIRL. And I don't know if this is JK going 'well, girls, if you act like this then everyone's going to think you're really annoying so STOP IT' or if she genuinely wanted Cho to be a sympathetic character, but it feels like a lot of the stuff Cho does is because she feels like girls should act that way, as opposed to it being how she wants to act. LIKE her whole jealousy thing with Hermione, which I really think is RIDICULOUS (but then, I am in Harry's head, pretty much, so...) and she must know that, if they wanted to be boyfriend and girlfriend, then they would be by now, ffs.

And then also she's all like 'let's go to this twee tea room and you can tell me how pretty I am!' and I'm just like 'Just stop it. Please. BE MORE INTERESTING.' And she's not, and it's annoying, and I guess it's because JK wants to get Harry and Ginny together, and also because she wants to show how the fantasy of a person is rarely the reality of them, but still. It's kind of disappointing and makes me roll my eyes a lot.

ST MUNGOS! Firstly, I have to say that, even though I (evidently) don't like Sirius, I'm actually really happy that he didn't have to spend Christmas just with Kreacher, because that is the depressingest. But also, I didn't want ARTHUR (surely the best of the Weasleys) to be attacked by, apparently, snake Harry! Anyway- the first hospital visit is awesome because Mr W gossips about the other patients and OMG that is entirely what happens when people are in Hospital (I'm a pro, trust me.) So it's nice to know wizards aren't above that.

BUT THEN. The Christmas day visit just makes me want to cry in all the ways. I think it's the adorablest that Lupin goes and sits with the werewolf patient because that guy really needs a friend, and Lockhart! You are back and still ridiculous. But then, obviously, there's Neville. Did I get the biggest lump in my throat a person has ever had when I read this?
"Neville looked around at the others, his expression defiant as though daring them to laugh, but Harry did not think he'd ever found anything less funny in his life."
 There's a bit in GoF where Harry wonders if Neville hasn't had a worse time of it than him, having parents who are alive, but unreachable, and I feel like... Well, it's not a competition, but how terrible does that seem? Saving sweet wrappers because they're all his mum is capable of giving him... I JUST CAN'T.
Now, it's Snape time.

The memory Harry sees in the pensieve is one of the things from all of the books that I remember the most, the one that pretty solidly forms my view of Snape, and that has made me think A LOT over the past week. I have feelings, you guys, and I'm about to word vomit them out in front of you. Be ready.

SO. Firstly and very importantly, I don't think that 'we were only fifteen', has ever been a valid excuse for anything, least of all bullying, you know, 'the weird kid.' Because, like Harry says, HE'S fifteen, and he's actually never bullied anyone because he has a sense of decency and he knows what it's like to be the victim, which also means that he can put himself in Snape's shoes and look at his father and think 'well... Maybe he wasn't all that,' which is kind of sad, but at the same time, who would want to live in that shadow?

And then there's Snape himself, who, as the victim of bullying you would think would kind of be nice to people and not pick on certain students (Harry) and not let other students (Malfoy) pick on certain other students (Harry. Anyone who isn't Malfoy.) because he HAS to know that shit is going on. Here's the trouble with Snape and his attitude towards Harry- because Harry is James's son, and because he looks so much like him, Snape automatically thinks of Harry as being LIKE James, which means he wants to hurt him like he was hurt by James (which is bad. But I get it.) But what Snape forgets (or maybe never knew) is that, Harry isn't like James because Harry wasn't raised by James, and was, in fact, raised by people who didn't like him, where HE was bullied on pretty much a daily basis.

If they understood how alike some of their situations are, maybe they'd be able to find some common ground and not be assholes at each other. But, you know, DRAMA AND TENSION are always good.

Here is A Thing: Sirius pretty much tries to justify why James hated Snape so much by saying that it was because Snape was into the Dark Arts, which James always really hated. Fair enough for James- but you know what? When I was 15, I was into reading a lot of Stephen King (yep. Always) and listening to Nirvana and, like, not talking to people (I'm basically still the same, actually...) but that didn't mean that I was about to shoot up loads of heroin and, I don't know, murder children because how does that mean that? But the thing is, wanting to know about the Dark Arts, and then having kind of a good reason to use them (constant abuse) is BOUND to have an effect on someone and make them, I don't know, do something really stupid and become a Death Eater or something.

You COULD say that James and Sirius's actions, then, CREATED a dark wizard, rather than doing anything to prevent the Dark Arts. You could totally make that argument and I wouldn't disagree with you, and yet again we're learning that the things that seem like they should be good can actually be doing evil just by not doing good. (Is this a sentence that makes sense? Not really. I didn't get much sleep last night.)

In conclusion, Sirius and James suck, Lupin is a good boy for making them ashamed of themselves sometimes, and I love you, Snape, but I just wish you were better.
I am foregoing the bullet points this week because of my aforementioned tiredness, but I just have to do a shoutout for Fred and George- firstly, I love them for basically only sticking around Hogwarts because, like, Dumbledore wanted them to, and secondly, their exit was pretty cool- I can't decide if I prefer theirs or Dumbles', but since theirs annoyed Umbridge more, I think that's what I'm going to have to go with. ALSO I have to thank them for the fireworks that led to my favourite kind of humour- when Umbridge tries to Stupefy them, and then says "'Don't Stun them, Filch!' shouted Umbridge angrily, for all the world as though it had been his incantation." If in doubt, blame someone else.
This gif is not relevant, except it's TOTALLY relevant. AND I just found it so there.

33 comments:

  1. Favourite Potter post of the week? I think I kinda followed the FEELINGS section, and I hope when I finally reread Book the Fifth it makes MY brain explode with similar force. I do like the Lupin's all kinda like, "Guys... enough already" because he's The Good Boy.

    Also, Snape should totally be nicer to the downtrodden kids because of experience, but maybe he's just fucked up ENOUGH to enjoy the power he has a teacher that he didn't have way back when? And MAYBE he's very aware that if he, say, stopped Malfoy being a dick to good Gryffindor students, it might get back to Lucius and questions might be asked about loyalties? Because Death Eaters, as we all know, seem to be fairly incapable of subtlety about these things.

    Also, you're totally right about hospitals. It's the first thing you get when you visit someone - a complete rundown of who snores all night and who has visitors and who's actually related to your auntie's friend's cousin and who's horrible and who fell out of bed trying to reach the grapes on the side table. EVERY TIME. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I feel like I understand Lupin the best in that whole situation, because he doesn't want it to be happening but he also wants his friends to like him. But just the fact that he objects to it somewhat makes me happy, although I'm sure that doesn't help Snape!

      I don't know, man. Snape is a very complex man. I love him. But I think the power thing is definitely involved, but I just WISH that he knew more about Harry's past. But then, maybe he wouldn't care, anyway. :(

      I KNOW RIGHT?! People are so funny. My nan is the WORST for it though- she's like 'well, she keeps wandering around, and that one hasn't MOVED' etc etc etc. HONESTLY!

      Delete
  2. But being super into the Dark Arts is not the same thing as being super into Stephen King. The Dark Arts are evil. They're only for evil! They have no other use! I think it's fair to dislike somebody for being evil/racist (which is what Snape is). Of course not fair to bully someone, but I don't think the book accepts "they were only fifteen" as a good excuse either. Harry certainly doesn't.

    Also, Snape is definitely a dick. I find it really, really difficult to believe that he doesn't know exactly what Harry's life has been -- he's been around Hogwarts, and Dumbledore has kept him aware of Harry, right? Don't the memories in the seventh book strongly imply that? Snape has no excuse for bullying Harry the way he does, but EVEN IF HE DID (he doesn't), he has infinity no excuse for bullying Neville the way he does, because he definitely knows Neville grew up without parents, and he definitely knows why, and he's just a wanton asshole to Neville every single day. Which is why he's a dick.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, but... being fascinated by something and actively doing them because you want to hurt things are two completely different things, and I genuinely, GENUINELY believe that Snape would never have been a Death Eater if it hadn't been for those guys, AND I think that D-Dore thinks that a bit too, and that's why he cuts him so much slack. (I know there are other reasons, but I can't remember everything, so, shhhh a bit please?)

      As for the rest... Yeah, I can't argue with it. I think it MUST be a mindfuck for Snape having Harry around though, and I don't think the way he acts towards him is ok, but at the same time I kind of get it, but yeah, there kind of is no excuse for how he treats Neville. Unless he thinks kids learn best through negative reinforcement, but still...

      The thing is, I actually really really hated Snape through all the books apart from the last one, and then that memory from this one, and it's SO weird how knowing a few things about him can make me feel like I understand him somewhat and can excuse a lot of the bad things he does. But, you know, I'm always going to find ways to make excuses for Snape, and you're always going to find ways to make excuses for Sirius and that's just how we roll!

      Delete
    2. Dude you are completly forgetting about Snape's parents. They are the reason he is who he is and why he dislikes muggles/goes for the powerful friends (i.e. deatheaters). J&S probably didn't help, but they are not the cause.

      Delete
    3. WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER REASONS BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER THEM?!

      But I think that someone can have amazing parents, be a bit weird (dark arts-y) and have their entire outlook and way of being completely changed by bullies. If J&S had befriended Snape INSTEAD of being assholes, what could have happened then?

      Also, *probably* didn't help?! Come on, dude!

      Delete
  3. "You COULD say that James and Sirius's actions, then, CREATED a dark wizard, rather than doing anything to prevent the Dark Arts" -- NO.

    I won't defend their actions (because they're horrible) but you're completely leaving out the fact that Snape isn't nice to them either, or that they are NOT the only people who abused him. This is one scene and as we see more flashbacks over the next 2.5 books it's impossible to say EITHER side are good or bad. They both hurt each other, usually unprovoked. It's like the Malfoy/Harry thing. Malfoy's actions are usually reprehensible, but Harry isn't an innocent party in all of it, he gives as good as he gets when it comes to Malfoy. But they both have things going on behind the scenes that influences their reactions. It's too complicated a situation to simply say that J&S are therefore bad people (what about the fact that at the age of 19 J&S were risking their lives to fight in the OoTP? Does that count for nothing?) and Snape is a victim from just one scene. Or, for that matter, that Snape is an evil guy and J&S were just kids.

    /novel-length rant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, fair enough that apparently EVERYONE picked on Snape, but I won't have that they had nothing to do with him becoming a dark wizard because being routinely humiliated by people who are on the side of, you know, 'the good' would kind of do nothing to inspire one to turn away from the dark arts, and be good himself.

      Did I say that it was simple though?! I thought that my SIX PARAGRAPH RANT (and it could have been longer, honestly!) about allll the angles of the memory made it pretty clear I'm undecided on the whole thing, other than that I favour Snape over the other 2 because 1) There's only one of him, 2) I feel the weird kid thing, 3) They are the kind of popular people I hate always and forever. But it's not a simple thing!

      Delete
    2. Yes but you're mostly saying it isn't simple regarding Snape. And your conclusion seemed pretty clear and adamant about the other two.

      But no more fighting, I give up. This hurts my heart. Can we go back to laughing about wand jokes please?

      Delete
    3. Awwwww, it's not like forever fighting. It's just HP fighting. Which is more awesome.

      Buuuut (just to add) my conclusion about Sirius and James is based on, I think, the fact that they were horrible bullies, and YES they've done bad things since then, but I don't know that that absolves them completely for what they did and I still favour Snape because he's just a little bit weird so I feel for him. And I feel like, Snape's attitude NOW isn't simple, whereas their behaviour THEN was pretty simple and it was terrible and I can't help but hate them for it? Even now? I think... I have a lot of thinks.

      Delete
  4. SNAPE. I never thought much about his complexity before the sixth book until this readalong but man is that guy complicated. Quite possibly more so than Harry or just about anybody. Because YEAH, we Americans have seen how, I don't know, school shooters were usually bullied a lot, so it's no real surprise that Snape became a Death Eater. And yeah, he could be more sympathetic to Harry, but he hasn't resolved his past and he has even MORE reasons to be resentful of Harry's existence than we yet know. Despite being eminently hate-able, he's also such a poor, lonely, broken man.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Snape is SO complicated. Especially for a character that, actually, we haven't really seen THAT much of up until now if you really think about it (I'm always focused on Snape, but that's just because I LOVE HIM). But totally the bullying=bad things happening thing, and DEFINITELY he has his reasons for hating Harry. I mean, I still wish that he was nicer to Harry, and that those two could just WORK IT OUT, but he has valid things. Poor old Snape :(

      Delete
  5. SO MANY SADS with the St. Mungo Neville scene. When I was writing up my post I forgot about Gilderoy because I was just focused on poor Neville and DAMMIT SHUT UP RON.

    I agree that just being 15 doesn't excuse James & Sirius from being mean to Snape when they were teens but I also think it's a bit of a jump to claim that James & Sirius MADE Snape a Death Eater. Besides, even Sirirus's excuses for James's behavior sound like excuses and probably ones he doesn't totally believe anyway. Snape liking the Dark Arts is probably one of many reasons James disliked Snape so much. Other reasons include James had a huge ego and liked the attention that he got from picking on Snape.

    Snape is obviously taking things out on Harry because of how James treated him, which is stupid but fine. But Snape also is mean to Hermione and Neville, who didn't have parents that made is life hell in school.

    Snape is a GREAT character for the series, but I agree with Kayleight's post that he's also a dick.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Awww, but Ron didn't KNOW! I was just so so so so sad, and so sad that Neville even thought that they'd laugh at him! Because who would laugh at that? (Except Malfoy. But Malfoy is actual evil.)

      I reaaaaaaaally don't think it's that much of a jump to say that James and Sirius made Snape a Death Eater! I'm not saying that it's the only cause or anything, but I still think it MUST have been a factor because how could it not be? I really very strongly dislike them as 15 year olds. Obviously.

      Snape's meanness to Hermione IS pretty unwarranted, but way less frequent than it is to Harry, and the same for Neville- it seems like he's the kind of person who basically can't tolerate stupid people (or really clever people... Hmm...), which makes him way bad for being a good teacher, but... I don't know. I JUST DON'T KNOW!

      'Snape is a dick' was basically my mantra when I was first reading these, but, you know, feelings evolve and my interest in Snape has somehow led to an obsession with him where I have to defend him all the time. It's EXHAUSTING!

      Delete
    2. Yeah, I know Ron didn't MEAN to call all the attention on Neville. But he did and he should have gotten an elbow or something.

      I think it is a jump to say J&S made Snape a Death Eater. Saying how they treated him contributed to Snape's decision to be a Death Eater is true. Just saying they made him one is over simplifying the case, and taking the blame off of Snape. Because in the end, he made the decision.

      I think Snape is one of the most interesting characters in the series. I just also think he's an ass so I can't join you in your obsession.

      Delete
    3. Yeaaaaah. Harry should probably have acted there.

      Iiiii have just read back and I don't think I necessarily said that that was the only reason Snape became a DE. But I can see how you would think that. So I apologise for oversimplifying. But I still think they had a fair bit to do with it.

      Tis a lonely path I have chosen. *sigh*

      Delete
  6. Wow you are so awesome for your use of sentences and paragraphs. Lol it shames me...

    I am SO with you on Cho. Her commenting on the lack of dementors around after the big jail break is the ONLY useful and interesting thing she's ever said or done. Blah.

    I have to say that I disagree with you about the "being 15 isn't an excuse" thing. Sometimes, it is. I think that had Harry grown up not being bullied his whole life, he probably would be an asshole teenager just like his father and wouldn't realize until later how wrong it was. I definitely think that kids and teens are capable of cruelty that we find hard to imagine as adults, and I think a lot of those people grow up to look back on it with shame. So yeah, Sirius and James kind of sucked in school, but they obviously had good core values and grew up to be decent people.

    Snape is a good and interesting character, but he never learns how to stop being such an asshole, which sucks.

    And YAY for the Weasley twins! I love how they stick around just to give Umbridge hell before taking off.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh my god, the way I felt last night I was just like 'I'm just going to write loooads of tiny bullet points' but INSTEAD I was lazy and just talked about those 3 things. It actually turned out to be less work! And I'm sad now that all my little details were left out!

      Oh, Cho. I want her to be better, but she just isn't. Sigh.

      I'm not saying that if you're TERRIBLE when you're 15, you can never grow out of it and become a good person. I'm saying that, when people say 'oh, we were just kids!' that's not an excuse for anything, because being young doesn't just mean you get to be an asshole- I was not an asshole when I was 15! Or at least not in the same way. It is possible to be young and NOT a bully and not awful. But I agree that it can be grown out of.

      Well... at least Snape learns to stop being an asshole in an anti-dark magic way? Yay?

      WEASLEY LOVE! Don't you also love how they were basically just finishing school because Dumbles wanted them to? LOVE IT.

      Delete
  7. IN MY SKIMMING OF IT LAST NIGHT I MISSED ONE OF THE MOST QUOTABLE LINES WHICH YOU QUOTED IN YOUR SUBJECT

    Damnit.

    Wait and did I miss the tea room?? Shit. I thought that was later. THIS SECTION HAS EVERY GOOD PART EVER.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD NOT SKIM ALICE!

      You did miss the tea room. It was RIDICULOUS as ever. But this section really does have ALL the good bits. It has literally saved it from forever becoming 'the lame HP book' in my brain. What is it about this woman and slow starts?!

      Delete
    2. Oooh, oooooh, and ALSO in this part, there's this bit where Harry wants to do something stupid (obvs) and Hermione says to Ron 'what do you think about this' and Harry is irresistibly reminded of Mr & Mrs Weasley, and it is AWESOME.

      This kind of has nothing to do with anything, but... I just wanted to tell you about it because you probably didn't see it. You know, sharing the love.

      Delete
  8. But you GUYS. Snape does know about Harry's past! Not for most of the books, but he found out before Harry snooped into his (Snape's) memory that Dudley and all the Dursleys had been systematically humiliating Harry from the moment he arrived on their doorstep. And during the Occlumency lessons, it seems like Snape might just be starting to get it, might be capable of treating Harry kindly: on page 520 of my edition, Snape asks Harry to explain the last memory he probed, and Harry says "You mean the one where my cousin tried to make me stand in the toilet?" "'No,' said Snape softly." Softly! Big improvement! But then it all goes to shit and Snape forgets Harry's not James. This comment got out of hand.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. KAYLEIGH ARE YOU DEFENDING SNAPE WITH ME?! I LOVE YOU! And you know what, I kind of even missed that bit, and aw, Snape! I hate that Snape can't see that Harry isn't James though. Harry is MUCH better than James. I guess that the fact that they look alike, combined with the fact that, if James had seen a memory that was THAT humiliating for Snape, he would have told EVERYONE, kiiiind of upset him and, you know, made him ever so slightly want to kill Harry. Poor Snape. Poor Harry. Stupid James and Sirius.

      Delete
    2. It's so kind of Snape to NOT taunt Harry using embarrassing memories of Harry being bullied by his cousin. But yeah, there was that one moment of Snape being almost nice to Harry.

      Delete
    3. QUIET ALLEY! That is genuinely quite nice for Snape! He could have been like 'if only your cousin had succeeded, Potter, you might have made a better go of things in the sewers' or something. IT WAS ALMOST PROGRESS!

      Delete
    4. I agree, it was a genuinely nice thing for Snape to do. It's baby steps for the guy.

      Delete
    5. I just wish Snape didn't suddenly disregard everything he'd seen and decide that, nope, Harry will pull a teenage-James and be a jerk. Oh, SNAPE. We know there's a good guy in there! Come back!

      Delete
  9. Briefly: Lupin is pretty good at being a pal when one needs a pal.

    Longly: OH MY GOD ok so what Sirius and Snape need to get together over drinks regarding is Harry Not Being James. Because seriously, Sirius, he is not your childhood hooligan pal and you can't guilt him into sticking his neck out. And Snape, Harry did not dangle you upside-down so everyone saw your dingy pants. Ok? Now hug it out, bitches.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SNAPE AND SIRIUS ACTUALLY DO NEED TO DO THIS! I feel really stupid now for not even making this connection, but YES! They both do the same thing! Only in really different ways. Ohhh, this so needs to be sorted out.

      Aside: Why does Snape even have dingy pants? They go to a BOARDING SCHOOL, where there are House Elves to do all the cleany things. So... surely everyone would have equally clean pants, no?! Unless Snape is especially dirty...

      Delete
  10. Okay so I haven't read all the comments and am posting really late (I'm sorry!) so maybe everything I'm about to say has already been said a million times BUT:

    Snape seems like he's been emotionally stunted or something. Like, he's still a massive asshole, but it feels like he somehow missed that adult stage where you don't always lash out at anyone who slightly annoys and/or provokes you. Maybe all the trauma of being a Death Eater kind of stuck him in the mode of being 18 or 19?

    I agree that James and Co.'s treatment of Snape probably pushed him toward the dark arts more, especially since they were the indirect cause of his only friendship ending... Basically James sucks and I DEMAND a prequel because I do not believe at all that Lily wanted to marry him after the snippets we've seen. I could never see myself being with someone I watched being routinely cruel to someone else.

    AND THAT LAST GIF! I cackled so hard at that point in the movie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YOU HAVE ACTUALLY SAID NEW THINGS!

      I DEFINITELY think Snape has been emotionally stunted- like, the time when he should have been moving on from school-world was taken up with more hatred and badness, and so even though he's ostensibly good now, he's still in the mindset of being really defensive and guarded and lashing out before anyone can hurt him. GOD that's so sad.

      And THANK YOU! (Some commenters have been like 'I don't think James and Sirius had anything to do with him being a dark artist (?)' and I'm like 'well... they clearly did because why would he ever want to be on their side when they're such assholes and also he probably wanted them DEAD. And you can't really blame him'

      I would be SO INTERESTED in that prequel. Like, I think at this point I'm a lot more interested in James and co, and Lily and Snape than I am with Harry's generation. And I love Lily, so I don't want to be like 'oh, she's stupid for marrying such a prick' but at the same time, yeah, I feel like, if I'd watched someone do those things (to someone I knew and liked! Especially that) I'd never be able to think about them in a romantic way, even if 'he was only 15' and did indeed grow out of it- you still know what they're capable of, and what they've done. I don't know, it's all very interesting and we just don't have enough information!

      OMG, I know right! And it's a movie almost completely devoid of laughs (well, for me anyway. I basically just cried all the way through it though.)

      Delete
  11. "If they understood how alike some of their situations are, maybe they'd be able to find some common ground and not be assholes at each other."

    But NOW they should understand how alike their situations are, right? Now that they've seen each other's bullying memories? And yet...still assholes to each other. SIGH.

    I'm starting to think of the Death Eaters as a rag-tag group of homeless youths, like a gang or that band of pickpockets in Oliver Twist. Which would explain why Snape was drawn to join them and ALSO makes me wonder what would have happened if Voldemort had been around to recruit Harry before he knew anything about the wizarding world. It seems like he would have jumped at any chance to leave Privet Drive, and he needed a father figure/family group. Things could have gone verrrry differently for Harry, eh?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And now that you've said this I super wish we got even a glimpse of some alternate reality HP where this happens.

      Of course, if Voldie were to get to Harry first then he'd still be in power and thus would have killed Harry off when he first tried. I'm going to either stop thinking so hard about this, or else think very hard and come up with some solution.

      Delete